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Talk:Union
Drops by Enemy Group and Zone Please fill this in as you like -- I'm doing bits and pieces as I can. While we still attempt to sort out what belongs where, please add all drops into the zone's section and identify which NM(s) were present. However, feel free to make obvious guesses (for example, Shadowhand dropping a Ladybug Wing in East Ronfaure... did that come from the NM group or zone? :o) Suggestions are also always appreciated. Click show on the right side to expand. 23:16, 25 July 2009 (UTC) Quadav Shieldwarriors Yagudo Theomilitary Orcish Hosts Dark Kindred Merged: *Adder 22:27, 26 July 2009 (UTC) *Bison 22:27, 26 July 2009 (UTC) *Coyote 22:27, 26 July 2009 (UTC) *Dhole 22:45, 26 July 2009 (UTC) *Eland 22:45, 26 July 2009 (UTC) *Below UPDATED 21:16, 26 July 2009 (UTC) - Changing the order from Mob->Zone to Zone->Mob, it works so much better this way. ^^; Lotting Qualifications "To be eligible to lot for Union treasure, a player's contributions to the battle must be evaluated at a certain level or higher. Further testing may be needed, but it appears that about 500 XP is sufficient. " - Just did North Gustaberg (S) with only 332 exp earned, was eligible to lot on the drops. --Xenomaru 07:32, 21 July 2009 (UTC) I did North Gustaberg (S) with less than 200 exp earned, but I was at level 43. Is it possible the contributing XP needed is determined before the level modifier lowers it? I also noted that the chat log told me I earned spoils from all five unions (the grey text when the chests are opened). I was signed up for E union. I know I did because E union was the last chest opened and I had a treasure pool before it was opened. There were, at least, a dozen players in each union and the fight ran for two waves: Quadavs followed by Kindred, and I was healing majority of the time. Maybe assisting another union earns points for it, too? --Jonci 14:22, 22 July 2009 *No, assisting another union does not grant you rights to lot on it. Every member of any union gets all the messages, what you should be looking out for is actually "Your valor in battle has earned you a claim to xx Union's spoils!", or something that goes by that wording. If you did not earn the rights, it should tell you something along "You did not achieve enough points..." --Foxfire, Siren~~ Did a campaign battle just now and did not qualify for spoils after earning 280 exp. My union had 9 members including myself. --Zythas 21:17, 26 July 2009 (UTC) I'd wager it's some sort of percent of the Union's total XP earned? Maybe like 5%? If everyone else in Zynthas's 9-person Union earned 1000 xp, that's 280/8280, which is only <3.5%. Just a guess, though. 21:59, 26 July 2009 (UTC) I agree with the % of total Union's XP theory to some extend. For example if the entire battle was just "wall bashing" you earn very little exp, probably around 50exp and still appear up with "Your valor in battle has earned you a claim to __ Union's spoils!" Although there will be no treasure chest to claim, it still appears up with that message. As to how much Union's exp needs to obtain 1 or more items in treasure pool I can venture a guess that it needs to be more than 2000 at least in total. --Lord0din69 23:52, 26 July 2009 (UTC) Treasure by zone, or mobs? I set up each individual union's page to sort by mob group (and naturally by Union, just in case SE's "Union-specific" was intended that way - merging them later is MUCH easier than sorting them later.) So far the drops seem to make sense by mobs also (e.g. BLM Yagudo have dropped Tornado, Samurai Yagudo have given me Icarus Wings, etc.) Possibly we should note all of the above until we figure it out. And we also need to figure out a place for these charts, because as of now there are the charts below as well as charts on each individual Union's page. Naturally the problem with sorting by group vs. zone is that multiple groups frequently attack at the same time. 02:53, 22 July 2009 (UTC) Ordelle Bronzepiece seems to drop for any Sandy Regions, as for the other loot I wasn't keeping a keen eye on it. (Oh, and granted with that logic you can guess Tukuku Whiteshell for windy areas and 1 Byne Bill for Bastok areas) --Lord0din69 11:30, 21 July 2009 (UTC) I agree that the Union specific charts for drops will make it much easier to sort/merge the results later. The table below is intended as an overview of drops you can expect from Campaign Unions. As I do a lot of campaigning, I will continue to update the table (the very least it can provide is a cross-reference to see which drops are missing on the Union pages), but I would encourage everyone else to help updating the Union pages instead. --Rumo 12:23, 22 July 2009 (UTC) So far, things are falling into place mob-based, still. However, it's important to remember that they still could be zone-based because many beastmen groups are "assigned" to certain, and the only thing that truly suggest mob-based is that Gho'bu (Red Mages) gave away some En-spell II's, without the zone's mobs even present (the zone "belonging to" white mages). 20:07, 25 July 2009 (UTC) The NMs appear to add some specific treasure that is not common for that area/region. Gho'bu is a good example, a RDM adding a RDM spell to the pool, another would be Dirtyhanded Gochakzuk, a BLM, adding a Flare scroll. So it's probably a mix of area/region-specific items with some bonus drops determined by whichever NM was attacking. --Rumo 22:01, 25 July 2009 (UTC) Updated the above charts, they should now accommodate the zone-and-mob-based idea which appears to be correct. The number of people in the Union and cumulative EXP of the union would also be nice, if possible, but both of those are somewhat difficult to come by. 22:10, 26 July 2009 (UTC) Possible treasure by area --Rumo 10:22, 21 July 2009 (UTC) Ordelle Bronzepiece seems to drop for any Sandy Regions, as for the other loot I wasn't keeping a keen eye on it. (Oh, and granted with that logic you can guess Tukuku Whiteshell for windy areas and 1 Byne Bill for Bastok areas) --Lord0din69 11:30, 21 July 2009 (UTC) KO'd Tally and No Treasure Box *Possible that if your entire Union is KO'd during end of Campaign Battle, then there will be no treasure chest regardless if how much effort was placed into the battle. I was playing with my friend in a relatively empty battle. We were in the same union, and it was just us two in the union. Near the end of the battle we were KO'd right before they started giving out EXP and AN. We didn't see in the chat log that our chest as appeared. However, when we were raised we were given the notice that we had chance to claim the loot. Obviously since there were no chest, we weren't about to claim any loot. --Lord0din69 11:36, 21 July 2009 (UTC) :Is it possible that you missed the chance to open the chest because you waited too long while you were KO'd and the chest despawned?-- 13:07, 21 July 2009 (UTC) ::It was less than 2 minutes before I got back up to check. I've had people run back that took longer to open their chest. *The chat log literally did not appear up for our chest such as: "A coffer of spoils for _X_ Union has appeared!" did not show up. *After we got up we had the "Your valor in battle has earned you a claim to _X_ Union's spoils!" --Lord0din69 13:57, 21 July 2009 (UTC) *Is there maybe some kind of minimum members or combined Union EXP required to have your chest pop at the end? I had a similar issue when I was alone in a Union but I was never KO'd during the battle. I received 900EXP at the end of the fight, if it matters. Suncedude 21:40, 21 July 2009 (UTC) There's no minimum requirement, as far as I know. I was the only member of the Eland in Campaign the other day, and one of three members in the battle alltogether. (It's possible that several other people joined and never left the C.A., I guess, but I obtained the items upon opening the coffer rather than them pooling.) However, I also died at the end of a similar scenario (the only one in my union) and got the message that I earned a claim while there were no coffers at all. EDIT: Ack, forgot to sign my post the other day. --Nuilvian 17:47, 25 July 2009 (UTC) *Something similar happened to me. I also noticed that I still had my sword icon after the battle was over. I waited a few moments, thinking I was lagging, but it was down to just me and 1 other person and my send/receive was still fine. Possible glitch? Wysperfauna 00:19, 23 July 2009 (UTC) ::*Now that you mention it, I also had the sword icon after the battle had ended when it happened to me. You may be right about it being a glitch. Suncedude 05:14, 23 July 2009 (UTC) *I've gotten the "You have resigned from Union." And from what it looks like, when it says that, you do not get a chest if your union did not hit a specific combined xp (I just did one where I got 600xp, and no chest pop), or you did not meet the xp cap. Zauath 18:15, 23 July 2009 (UTC) **EDIT: It does say "...resigned from Union" anyways, but I still think there must be a xp cap to break to get the chest to pop. ***I got 2500 experience from the battle without coffers, and I've seen a chest pop with no mobs where 4 people obtained <100 xp each. {Nuilvian 17:47, 25 July 2009 (UTC)} *About Treasure coffers appearing after battle. I think it is required that the Union has at least defeated one enemy for the coffer to spawn. Fighting in La Valule I got 1350xp/836AN but was unable to finish the Orc before the battle ended. A member of another Union successfully killed an Imp and only that Union coffer appeared. --Raydeus 17:43, 26 July 2009 (UTC) Amount of Treasure / XP Needed I think we can agree that the maximum treasures you can obtain from 1 union chest would be 10 items. However, what determines how much treasure you get? *5 Person Union, I managed to get lot options by just earning 340exp; Reward 3 items. *4 Person Union, 2000+ exp; Reward 4 items. --Lord0din69 15:20, 21 July 2009 (UTC) *4 Person Union, 415 exp. Reward 2 items and ability to lot. 350 as the minimum for lotting rights appears to be valid. Currently undergoing more testing to prove. --Tifaia 16:15, 23 July 2009 (UTC) **Just got out of a fight with 315 xp, 5 person Union. The 350 cap may be lower then expected. Here's the picture to prove the xp/lot. Picture or it didn't happen. XD Are Separate Union Pages Necessary? Frankly, I am not convinced that each Union will drop different lists of items. I think the drop list will vary by zone, and will not vary at all by the particular Union. The separate Unions are most likely an attempt to limit the number of people who will be lotting on particular items, to make the process more fair. --Ctownwoody 17:38, 23 July 2009 (UTC) :I agree, the pages were made too hastily and with no evidence that different unions drop different items. There several things that may effect drops, and should probably be recorded: area, area ownership, attacking/defending battle, attacking/defending forces, number of waves, union (just in case), number of members in union, battle outcome, accumulated EXP/AN of members. Most of these probably have no impact at all, but can't be completely ruled out without data.-- 10:24, 24 July 2009 (UTC) I pretty much agree as well, but I do think the separate pages are nice to have at least for a while from now on. After some time when the patterns become more clear, merge them in one page in some way or something I guess. --Sore wa sore, kore wa kore... 12:16, 24 July 2009 (UTC) :I also just noticed that the CA NPCs say: "the choicest rewards will be reserved for those unions which make the greatest contributions in combat". This could imply one of two things: (1) that there's a single pool for the battle that is divided between unions based on contributions; or (2) that rewards are simply propotional to a union's contributions (and not dependent on other unions).-- 12:44, 24 July 2009 (UTC) ::That theory makes sense at first but is doesn't apply in all cases. Consider "wall bashing" only campaign battles, no one gets anything at all. Therefore, there can't possibly be a pre-set treasure pool. The amount in the treasure pool must be determined by how much "contributions" the unions make by passing some threshold. "Contributions" is usually related to the amount of exp earned at the end of battle since it is rather similar. --00:01, 27 July 2009 (UTC) Please read the other discussions.. As was and is currently being discussed above, there was no evidence (at the time of these pages' creation) for anything, as the union system was released barely hours before.It is also stated above (as well as by Dragoy), it is much easier to merge these lists together if they are not union-specific than it is to try to sort them out later if they are. I'm in the process of creating a combined list as I write this. Thanks~ 22:40, 25 July 2009 (UTC) I liked it the way it was, I like to know which group of waves (e.g. Shadowhorn / Shadowhorn Stormers) are associated with which unions and what rewards each wave can give. That is the point of the tables. -- 23:46, 26 July 2009 (UTC) :That works too. The general consensus is that Union doesn't matter at all. The giant table at the top (I used NavFrames so it wouldn't take up the whole page) does sort by beastmen, but not Unions. Are the aforementioned giant charts okay to use on each Union's page? Once you get all of the enemy groups in there, it's huge. (Expand all of the frames and try to scroll down.) 23:55, 26 July 2009 (UTC) ::*Edit: Using those charts in their current form is a bad idea because it appears Wikilinks automatically style links (so that you must change EACH individual link's color inside the link) Possibly we should still use a recolored version so that the Unions' pages aren't several yards long? 09:20, 27 July 2009 (UTC) Zone and Mob relationship to Drops I'm a bit doubtful that it has any difference as to what mob attacks the zone. I finished a several North Gustaberg (S) fights and they dropped relatively the same items but with different mobs attacking. For example *Shadoweye **Steel Bullet Pouch **Gold Ore **Silver Ore *Shadowhand **Burst **Beetle Blood **Feyweald Log **Kopparnickel Ore **Heavy Quadav backplate **Fool's Gold Ore **1 Byne Bill **Gold Ore **Steel Bullet Pouch *Do'Bho Venomtail **Silver Ore **Gold ore **Cor. Bullet Pouch **1 Byne Bill **Fool's Gold Ore **Goblin Mess Tin As you could see they all have some repeating items, although not enough data can be given to show all repeating items. *1 Byne Bill *Steel Bullet Pouch *Gold Ore *Silver Ore *Fool's Gold Ore If you cross compare it to the older Possible treasure by area list above you get even more repeats. *Goblin Mess Tin *Heavy Quadav backplate Which leads me to believe that it can't be mob related drops. If so then you would be able to get 1 Byne Bill when Shadowhand attacks sandy or windy areas, which wouldn't make sense. --Lord0din69 03:55, 27 July 2009 (UTC) * While zones probably do matter, certain mob groups are set to certain areas. Now, this probably doesn't mean much, but I think that what you are referring to is the underlying items withing a zone/region. I do think that instead of recording as many places a person can go, but to follow a specific mob group and see it's pattern as well. Just an idea. --Zauath 04:50, 27 July 2009 (UTC) For one example to disprove your point, En-spell IIs only come with What'ever Crimsonarmor. Plus, Tornado has dropped from Yaa Haqa, Flare from Gochakzuk, and you yourself just said Burst from Shadowhand. Seeing repeats? The generally accepted idea at this point is that each zone has its group of drops, and each group of mobs adds certain things to that. 07:26, 27 July 2009 (UTC)